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• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) koppe 2007-08-21

  I must admit I liked the first one best -- and I was among those pushing for a sequel...
  Although I see what the author is aiming for (showing the rippling effect), I thought he drew in too many people -- and that after he drew them into the story, they played a too little part (eg. Vernon's boss could've been called as Vernon's character-witness, and reviled Harry's father financed the company). Also, several characters (like the Grangers) weren't at all affected by Harry's death at the time they were introduced into the story.
  I would've like more about the Dursleys' downfall (interrigation and trial) -- even about Dudley (his initial reaction of not being allowed to do everything)... more about the investigation of the abuse and murder... more about Dumbledore's downfall... more about the reaction of the wizarding-world as a whole...
  My greatest beef though, was that Harry's death didn't seem to matter. Yes, Voldemort may still return and there will be no one to defeat him; but his return seems unlikely with Wormtail's death and the Malfoys, Snape and others in prison. All in all, things seems to have gone better -- and faster -- without Harry... and that just rubs me the wrong way.
  The writing is good, but I would've prefered longer scenes, more details and a slower pace (e.g. more about Vernon's incarceration and trial).
  I'll rate this story as "Ambient", though I also concidered "Train Wreck", "Boring" or "OOC"... I really wish there was a rating for stories with "Great Potential, but don't Deliver".
  Keep up the good work.
  

  Author's response

  Thank you for your insightful review. I have to admit, the story was rather drawn out, but there was a reason behind the madness, (as it were). The first story was intended to grab at the heart and squeeze.
  
  When asked to write a second page, I found that most asked specifically for the reactions to Harry's death, especially centered around the major players, Dumbledore, Vernon and Petunia. I had to actually do a lot of research. I was astounded at the sheer number of people involved in Harry's life and their relationships, even peripherally. I trimmed the list as much as I could, but still had a huge number of people involved.
  
  I have been on many investigations where one seemingly unrelated piece of information led to an entirely new investigation. That Sirius had no dark mark, would begin an investigation as to why he was n prison. That would lead to Barty Crouch Sr. (and likely Jr.) That would logically lead to the rest of the Death Eaters and that to Fudge, who is in bed with Lucius. Draco is collateral damage, so I had to put him somewhere where the influence of his family would be neutralized.
  
  You are correct, Hermione would be mostly unaffected, but because of her age, it was likely she'd begin manifesting at the time. I made it happen in France because of the intolerance of the British system. She would have been ignored until her letter came. In a larger country like France, there would literally HAVE to be a better system in place. Besides, I like Hermione.
  I have a daughter who is very much like her.
  
  Harry's death was a done deal. It happened and it was over. The wizarding world reflected and mourned, but after that...what? If people read a news article about a child dying they will react much as Timmons did. They would affirm their love for their loved ones, maybe one or a few would buy a candle and mourn for a time, then they'd get on with their lives. To them, it's tragic, but not the end of their world. Amelia had the authority to take action and did, ensuring that if nothing else the wizarding world would be safe for the time being.
  
  Believe me, if I had included even the smallest part of the trial for a capital offense, Vernon and Petunia would still be awaiting trial.
  
  I would have liked to toss Dumbledore into Azkaban for his participation in the murder of little Harry, but he's too powerful politically, moving behind the scenes as he's been. He can be removed from his offices, but that's about it. He is still a force to be reckoned with.
  
  Malcolm (Dudley) is smart enough to not mention a thing. He'd be reviled for having any part in Harry's life and death, even if he didn't remember it clearly.
  
  Thanks again for your review. It was very helpful. Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) koppe 2007-08-21

  Hmmm... Make that "Insightful"

  Author's response

  I can accept 'Insightful'. Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) BJH 2007-08-21

  Really, really well done. I agree that the consequenses of Harry early death would be a mixed bag of good and ill. I enjoyed the poetic ends of some of the characters and the tragic ends of other, such as Remus. Hermione's life, as you state would be primarily uneffected by Harry's premature death but I have to wonder how the students of Hogwarts would react to the "Cousin who survived" as Dudley would likely be known. Ron, given his growing up with Draco, could easily see past it but I somehow doubt that many of the others would. Would they pester him with questions about what Harry was like and what his parents did to him?
  
  I also would argue against Voldemort being weakened by Harry's death. Given how the loss of the Diary horcrux didn't result in any significant impairment in canon I don't see how the death of Harry would in this milieu. If you wanted to continue this story it would be interesting to see how the Marauders Gen II would react to the situations similar to the HP series.
  
  The bunnies are loose. A retired Albus needs to persuade Headmistriss MicGonagall to protect the Stone when he hears that a loose Death Eater, Barty Jr, is conspiring to retrieve it for his master. Albus would have to explain to Amelia about the horcruxes and how he suspected Harry was an inadvertant horcrux and that he, Dumbledore, permitted the death of Harry as a sacrifice to the ultimate destruction of Voldemort. Everyone who hears the story is appalled at his heartlessness but they are convinced to take action when Gringotts is broken into. As a Ministry group, led by Kingley?, pursues the horcruxes, the M2 group stumble onto the stone. How would Dudley react when he recieves as a Christmas gift what should have been Harry's cloak? What would he see in the Mirror of Erised? His parents alive again? Or perhaps Harry? Set it in his second year with Ginny in school and the pair of them could stand together and both see Harry? Anyways, you know you did a good job when you trigger the imaginations of your readers to continue your story.
  
  BJH

  Author's response

  Thank you for the kind review.
  
  I am thinking that Malcolm would know to avoid any close discussion of Harry Potter. While I am not certain, I believe a prepared Minerva would have advised him to hide his relation to Harry, and explained the reasons for doing so. In the wizarding world, Malcolm would be just another muggleborne. (since this usually runs in families, it's not beyond possibility.)
  
  Since Draco had been placed with families firmly aligned with the light, I can see how the children of other death eaters would be similarly placed. This doesn't mean that the all will 'turn good', but it would derail any long term programming. These kids are four to six years old. They have time, even the older ones, under careful supervision, to learn new ways.
  
  I must admit, I threw the scenes with Hermione in because My daughter and I had just finished watching 'Matilda'. I was going to have the book open on the table but it wasn't published until almost two years later. sigh
  
  I figured France, being a larger country and frequently at odds with Britain, would have a better system installed to deal with magical discharges. The British system is so impersonal and 'Big Brother'-ish.
  Having a living person there to explain the causes and background would be a much better method of inculcating a new witch into the magical world.
  
  I think Voldy didn't notice the destruction of the diary because that part of his soul had already been removed from him. In canon, Harry's scar-aches began in the great hall, at the sorting feast. That would indicate some sort of active connection. With Harry's death, I think it stands to reason that the link that was there would be severed. If Voldemort was tapping into Harry's power somehow, He'd immediately feel the loss, and it would likely hurt...more.
  
  Your bunny ranch is popping the furry little pests out faster than I can shoot them!
  
  
  While Voldemort is still out there, so is Dumblemort. Much of the series cannot take place now,because of the intervention. Still, where there is a will...
  
  Being the paranoid bastard I am, (ex cop here!) I firmly believe Dumbles sent Quirrel to Albania specifically to be possessed. I have no evidence, but it stands to reason, as it's only when Harry reappears in the wizarding world that ol' snaky makes his own appearance. The sorcerers stone had been safely hidden in Gringotts accessible only to Dumbles and Nicholas, then suddenly the vault is broken into? Co-inky-dink? I think not! Without his interference, the whole stone scenario falls apart.
  
  This story is complete, but I have one 'Inadvertent Horcrux' story waiting patiently in cyber-limbo, (Damn Win 2000!)
  
  Your review was very helpful and I will note that on my reviews page. Thanks again. Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) Cateagle 2007-08-21

  This story does follow the ripple effects of "Discovery" quite nicely and believeably. What happened to the adult Dursleys was quite deserved and this reader is glad that Dudley (Malcolm) got help early enough to grow up a decent person, let alone a wizard. I definitely see the destruction of the Horcrux and link with harry as somethign even Tom's spirit would feel. I thought the touch of Remus letting the head of Grunnings know the full story was a poignant bit, esp. when followed by the suicides of Remus and Sirius (I can't say I could blame or condemn either of them). I suppose it's for the best that a politically weakened, but still manipulative, Albus Dumbledore is around to help deal with a weaker Voldemort, but I could wish that he'd paid more for his egregious and on-going errors in judgement.
  
  Y'know, if you're not careful, this one will spring lots mroe plot bunnies. One of which, to me, seems to be whether or not Harry's passing would shift the mantle of the prophecy onto Neville. With a stronger home backing and a good "crew" at his side and back, he'd have a much better shot at dealing with a weakened Voldemort.

  Author's response

  Heya, Cateagle. Thanks for your kind review.
  
  As you can see, I am a firm believer of both 'Love with Discipline,' and the 'nurture' side of the argument. (I've raised my daughter that way for the past twelve years. Grins)
  
  Voldy had to have had some kind of connection to Harry or his scar wouldn't hurt. If Harry is in fact, a Horcrux, (which is entirely likely) his death will have torn something away from the spectre. As he said in Four, "Ahh...pain beyond pain, my friends;...!"
  
  I can easily understand Remus' and Sirius' decisions. I've already had to bury a wife and son. If my daughter were to die, I would have nothing left. I'd definitely want to join her.
  
  Much as I (REALLY) wanted to, I couldn't chuck Dumblemort's manipulative ass into Azkaban.(I honestly believe he put Harry there on purpose! Grr! Hiss!) He's too powerful, politically speaking. Even out of office, he is still a force to be reckoned with. Unfortunately, public disgrace and the loss of all his positions, is the most I could do to him.
  
  Your description 'Politically weakened but still manipulative Dumbledore', is probably what will tip the scales when the weaker version of Voldemort does return. Despite his 'circumstantial ethics', he is a most powerful wizard. That and the fact that the Aurors are at full strength.
  
  As for more plot bunnies, you should read the last review I got. Bunnies galore! The possibility of Neville taking on the mantle is likely a non-issue. Augusta has made it her job to correct the damage done to her grandson. In addition, unlike in canon, here, he has friends.
  
  I agree with your assessment. When I was in the Marine Corps,. I had a DI who's favorite saying was: "There is no problem so insurmountable, that it cannot be solved with a suitable application of firepower." The weakened Voldy will still have most of his Horcruxes. The one held by Lucius, (diary) will most likely be destroyed by the Department of Mysteries, since the Ministry has probably seized the Malfoy assets including the manor. The same can be said for the Locket at #12 Grimmauld. (With the death of the last Heir of the Black line, the house's charms will fade and the DoM will probably be called in to locate any dark artifacts.) Conjecture, yes, but likely.
  
  Dumbledore will probably still go after the ring and get himself killed doing so.
  
  Again, thank you for the thoughtful review. Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) oximoron 2007-08-21

  A minor point of little consequence
  
  Luna's wording after she has her vision sound wrong if you take into account when her birthday is. JKR has stated that her birthday is on Halloween and it is weird for her to have just turned nine on august 17. Of course you are free to alter her birthdate at will. Its your fic.
  
  

  Author's response

  Thanks for bringing that up. I really had no idea when Luna's birthday is, so I used my daughter's birthday of Aug. 4th. I just knew that her mother was killed after she turned nine. Blushes. Sorry. I hope you liked the rest, though. Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) Meteoricshipyards 2007-11-01

  Just read both stories and am impressed. The emotional hammer of the first was well done. Pulled the heartstrings. I have kids, too.
  
  This one was a great follow up. Vernon and Petunia (and Marge) were very much in character. It felt satisfying that justice prevailed. The scene with the Weasleys being told (and Ron holding Ginny) was sweet. Liked Susan's quick appearance (dang, I wish there were more H/Susan stories, but I digress).
  
  Anyway, I thought it was an excellent look at the repercussions of Harry's death. Thanks for writing it.
  
  Tom A.

  Author's response

  WOW! Meteoricshipyards! Gushes!
  
  Thank you for your kind review. While 'A Shocking Discovery' received many reviews, most of them expressing shock and amazement, 'Discovery: Revisited' didn't do so well. It was actually the harder of the two to write.
  
  Almost everybody who reviewed the first wanted a sequel, so I began to work on 'revisited' Unfortunately as such things often do, the second page grew. I had wanted to involve only Dumbles and the Dursleys, but as I examined each person's contribution, someone else would come out of the wings. In all, I think I involved almost twenty people.
  
  The comeuppance was based on my years of experience as a police officer (and growinng up as I did, it really felt good too put those evil 'people' into prison. Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) GryffindorDragon 2008-05-06

  This is quite good. I can see how your wife beta might think of it as a feel good as there is a certain satisfaction in seeing "the bad guys" get theres. But the scene with Luna seems out of sync with the rest. The comment 'He was alive again, but all grown-up' creates, certainly unintentionally, a notion of Harry returning in some way. I thought for a moment you might be leaving the door open for a different sort of Harry returns to (younger) life story.
  Also, why would Harry's death lead to Dudley becoming magical? While it makes sense to sense Dudley raised differently and so becoming a decent person, it wouldn't naturally follow that he would become magical.

  Author's response

  OK, Lets deal with these one at a time. It's my sister who is my beta. (I'm a widowed dad.) She hates any type of stories where justice is served. She also hates my dark(er) Harry stories (unfortunately not yet posted).
  
  Luna does tend to be out of sync with most of the world. However, I tried to make her visions appear to her in a manner that a four year old could accept. Technically, neither she, nor Hermione should be involved at all, because they never met Harry until school, but as they are such an important part of the overall story, I added them.
  
  The reason I added Dudley is because he needed something. Yes, he abused Harry too, but at five, he really wasn't responsible for his decisions. Daddy said it was OK, and so it was.
  
  Harry's death was not the cause for Dudley's magic, but it may well have been the catalyst. Additionally, Magic seems to run in families. Lily and Harry were magical, and Petunia was at least aware of the magical word, though she couldn't enjoy the benefits, which accounts for her jealousy. If she had a latent talent, she could have passed that on to Dudley.
  
  Vernon's abject refusal to accept anything but what he considered normal, could easily have caused Dudley to instinctively hide any magical outbursts, or blame them on Harry.
  
  I hope I've answered your questions, and thank you for your well-thought-out review. Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) ficbob 2008-07-03

  Good wrap up of a sad state

  Author's response

  Thanks. I hate child abusers. Harry's life affected so many people, even before they knew him. Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) Kalen_Darkmoon 2008-09-23

  Good continuation. Only 2 complaints.
  
  1) Why give Dumbledore essentially a pass for his role in Harry's suffering and death? Why does damn-near everyone always seem to want to give Dumbledore a pass for his atrocities? In this case resulting in the homicide of a boy by the people he placed that boy with after KIDNAPPING that boy from his legal guardian.
  
  Go back and re-read the events where Hagrid REFUSES to give Harry to Sirius "on Dumbledore's orders" that he go to the Dursleys instead. Dumbledore KIDNAPPED Harry from his rightful and legal guardian and then put him KNOWINGLY into an abusive home - both in canon and your story.
  
  So why does he walk free only having lost his political position and Headmaster of the school? He kidnapped and indirectly MURDERED the BWL - intentional or not, Harry's death was a result of Dumbledore's ILLEGAL actions/activities. I can't see the wizarding world not wanting his head on a pike in Diagon Alley regardless of his past heroics.
  
  In a way the Dursleys were less responsible than Dumbledore. Dumbledore was well aware of the animosity between Petunia and Lily per canon and thus KNEW how Harry would be received as fully evidenced by his own admissions in the later books.
  
  Dumbledore was Chief Warlock (Chief Judge) who kidnapped and gave custody of a magical child to KNOWN magic-haters. You showed that he received reports of abuse from Arabella Figg and ignored them.
  
  So please explain why the bastard's head isn't on that aforementioned pike.
  
  It was every bit like a judge giving custody of a black child to a member of the Klu Klux Klan to raise.
  
  2) No real consequences shown for the rest of the world that enabled and allowed this to happen. More than just the Dursleys were responsible but only they were shown to have paid any consequences. There is NO DOUBT this would have inflamed the wizarding populace against muggles. I can't see ANYONE giving a damn what Voldemort and the Pure-blood bigots want to do to muggles anymore after that atrocity against an innocent little wizard child-hero. After all, muggles are considered by most wizards/witches to be beneath them.
  
  Can you imagine if it was a house-elf that murdered the BWL? Muggles are seen as barely above them by most wizards and witches depicted by JKR.
  
  At the very least I would have expected wizard/witch backlash enough to have razed the entire neighborhood surrounding 4 Privet Drive.

  Author's response

  Good questions.
  
  Dumbledore did not receive a 'get out of jail, free' card. His power, is based almost entirely on his political positions. He has lost them all. His machinations have been made public, and he's been effectively neutered. For someone who moves things from the shadows, a spotlight is the worst thing for him.
  
  The biggest problem here, is that most of the Wizarding population if Britain, honestly believes Dumbledore is Merlin reincarnated. He has taught, trained or otherwise shaped nearly every single British witch or wizard below the age of one hundred.
  
  Having been a police officer, I am well aware of the many crimes Dumbledore has committed in canon. In fact, those very issues are the basis of several of my as-yet, unposted stories.
  
  As for the British wizards wanting His head on a pike, (I really like that idea!) Dumbledore is, as was Pinochet, legally untouchable. He has protected himself too well and for far too long, for anybody to actually take him to task. Removing him from all his positions of influence is, unfortunately, the worst thing they can do to him.
  
  You will note in canon, he only actually placed Harry on the doorstep himself. Each of his other actions was done through a proxy. Nothing can be traced directly to him. "Hagrid must have misinterpreted my instructions. I merely wanted him to check on the house, to ensure the Potters were safe." or "I don't know what Arabella is talking about. She never approached me with any concerns about Harry."
  
  Who are they going to believe? A squib? A half-giant? Not over the word of Albus too-many-names Dumbledore, greatest wizard of his mind.
  
  On the other hand, Dumbledore will be needed when the much weaker Voldemort does make his appearance.
  
  While I have addressed the issue of backlash, in Madam Bones' warning through the Prophet article, You are correct. there would be a sizable lashing out at the muggles. The bigotry of the wizarding world is so ingrained, the culture is built around it. Muggles, house elves, goblins and 'other creatures' are at the bottom, with mugglebornes just one step above them. Then come half-bloods, and fullbloods (those with two magical parents but without the long pedigree of the purebloods.) and the inbreds, who stand alone at the top.
  
  To declare war against the muggles would be both stupid and well in character of the wizards. I'd imagine the threat of severe reprisals by the ministry, that Bones made will cause cooler heads to prevail...hopefully.
  
  Thank you for your thorough review. Much better than 'Loved it, want more!" or "Hated it, it sucked!"
  
  Alorkin

• DISCOVERY: Revisited. (The Butterfly Effect)

  (#) bobman 2008-10-10

  Really great story. I especially liked the part where Vernon is beaten to death in jail, as most people don't realize how much most other criminals hate child abusers.
  
  The only real problem I have is the line about Dudley being one the the two "the brightest stars to have graced Hogwarts in decades". While I agree that environment is much more important than genetics, for the most part, an eleven year old child who cannot add two to thirty-six does not have the potential to become one of the brightest kids in his class if only he were raised differently.

  Author's response

  Thanks for the review. I see we agree on the prisoner part. I've been a cop, and I've sent enough people to prison. Child abusers are the only things there, that are lower than rapists...and considering the majority of hard core prisoners, that's saying something.
  
  Dudley's situation is slightly different. In canon, he's the result of eleven years of spoilage. He's actually quite intelligent, given that he can convince Petunia and Vernon, both to do exactly as he wishes, when he wishes and convinces them that he can do no wrong through various subterfuges.
  
  The differences here are these: Harry was taken out of the picture early, and Dudlay's parents were imprisoned when he was five...before began school. From that time forward, he was subject to firm discipline as well as caring and comfort. "He was taught that the world did not in fact, revolve around him", and that his misdeeds would not go unpunished.
  
  With his innate intelligence, he could go far, if provided an opportunity to do so. I gave him that chance. In that way he and Draco are in the same boat. In canon, both have been taught to be the way they were. Each had been taught that their actions would have no consequences. That's why, IMHO, they both turned out to be bullies.
  
  Besides, with Hermione Granger as a study partner could they be any different? (Canon doesn't count, as Harry and Ron were not, in fact her study partners. They simply copied off her work and had her check their efforts.)
  
  Thanks again......Alorkin

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